SIEDAH GARRETT
Lake Geneva, Switzerland — July 2025. Siedah Garrett is sizzling onstage at the Montreux Jazz Festival's all-star tribute to her close friend and mentor, Quincy Jones. The set also doubles as a sampling of career highlights, as she performs songs that bear her stamp as a singer ("The Places You Find Love"), songwriter ("Man in the Mirror" and "Tomorrow"), and vocal arranger ("The Secret Garden"), plus a dynamic live performer who can hold her own with icons like Chaka Khan on "Stuff Like That."
Indeed, the LA-based musical dynamo has mastered several realms of music ever since she appeared as Dennis Edwards' duet partner on the Top 5 R&B hit, "Don't Look Any Further" (1984). However, she remembers the praise that shifted her self-perception. She'd been known, primarily, as a prolific session vocalist singing on hits by everyone from Madonna to Michael McDonald before co-writing "Man in the Mirror" for Michael Jackson's Bad (1987) album. The song impressed legendary songwriters like Cynthia Weil, who'd co-written "On Broadway," "You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin'," "Black Butterfly," among countless classics.
"You wrote the one song I wish I'd written," Weil told Garrett. "You are no longer a demo singer, Siedah. You, my dear, are a songwriter."
It was the highest of compliments. "When she said that, I just melted," Garrett recalls. "It didn't really hit me until I was filling out some application. On employment, I got to say 'Singer-Songwriter.' I never wrote down the fact that I was a singer-songwriter. When I did that, it was a very empowering moment. I felt strong. I was like, 'Thank you Cynthia for telling me what I am.'" Indeed, her songwriting has been a gift to many legends, including Diana Ross, Aretha Franklin, Earth, Wind & Fire, Roberta Flack, Dionne Warwick, Al Jarreau, and Natalie Cole.
Garrett's own recordings have established her as an inspirational force, parallel to her many philanthropic endeavors, including several HIV/AIDS charities, which earned her the Good Samaritan Award from the Minority AIDS Project. She wrote "Reach Up LA" for the 2015 Special Olympics World Games and "It's Time to Listen" for Autism Awareness while "Carry On" benefited the Race to Erase MS.
Beyond records, her songwriting has flourished in films, including The Color Purple (2023). She's received two two Academy Award nominations for her contributions to the animated film Rio ("Real in Rio") plus an original song for the film adaptation of the Broadway musical Dreamgirls ("Love You I Do" recorded by Jennifer Hudson), which also won Garrett a GRAMMY Award for "Best Song Written for Motion Picture, Television or Other Visual Media." She's recently ventured into writing for musical theater, including the forthcoming stage productions of Polly, based on the 1989 film directed by Debbie Allen, and The Pursuit of Happyness — The Musical, plus a recent commission to write lyrics for the stage musical adaptation of the film Joyful Noise (2012), which starred Dolly Parton, Queen Latifah, and Keke Palmer.
Walking into an LA recording studio with her husband and manager Erik Nuri, Siedah Garrett is the epitome of effervescence. She dances and sings along to a playlist that features everything from her work with The Brand New Heavies to the UK-based house duo Freemasons. In her interview with Unscripted, Garrett revisits a career that's offered no shortage of lessons and opportunities, whether it's the experience of recording her #1 duet with Michael Jackson ("I Just Can't Stop Loving You"), the release of her solo debut Kiss of Life (1988), or the impact her songs have made over the past four decades. She's full of joy and wisdom, and ready to tell her story ...
As you were growing up, how did music shape your view of the world?
Growing up the way I did, with my mom and dad divorced when my sister and I were five and six, music was an escape. It was transporting me to another place, another world where I didn't have to deal with the immediate neighborhood or the immediate situation that was going on in the household. I could literally escape into the music.
Steveland Morris — the amazing Stevie Wonder — I didn't really know what I was listening to when I was listening to his music, I just knew that he told great stories. I would listen to his music, especially Songs in the Key of Life. I would lay on the floor of the living room and I would stand my mother's living room speakers next to my head. I would lay on my back with the speakers — those were my first headphones! That was the first time I heard music, in stereo, in both my ears, and it was so amazing. For a long time as a kid, I listened to music like that. It was an escape.
At what point in your life did you become aware of songwriters? Who were some of the songwriters that you admired early on?
I didn't even know who I was admiring. I was admiring the artist that sang the song and I assumed that whoever was singing it wrote it, but what I was really listening to was Stevie, Chaka, and Michael because of the stories they told with their music.
I got an allowance, $5 or whatever it was, and I remember buying two 45's for 45 cents each. The first two records I ever bought — one was Michael Jackson's "Corner of the Sky" and the other one was Stevie Wonder's "Don't You Worry 'Bout a Thing." I just listened to those songs over and over. I loved the storytelling. I didn't even know what I was in love with. Everyone's in love with Stevie's voice and Michael's voice, but they told stories with their music. I didn't really get that until I had to start writing songs.
How did you cultivate that interest in writing songs and telling stories yourself?
I was kind of forced into being a songwriter. I auditioned for Quincy Jones, who was looking for a group like Manhattan Transfer. He auditioned over 800 people on this two-week period in Hollywood. My callback was eight or nine times, and each time there were different songwriters and producers. Quincy was recording Patti Austin's album, so everybody was writing for Patti Austin and I was singing all those demos. Quincy would get a song. "Who's singing on this?" "That's Siedah." He'd get another song. "Who's singing this?" I just kept coming up. It was over a period of nine months. I would get these letters. The first letter was like "Congratulations! You're one of 500 people ..." Every four to six weeks, I would get another letter. "You're still in the running ... 250 ... 100 ... 50 ... 25 ... 15 ... 10 ... 5 ... 4." Me and three guys.
Quincy was offering an artist contract and a songwriting contract. I knew I could be an artist. I had never written a song. I was like, "I don't want that part. I just want to be the artist." At one point, I don't know why I wasn't invited to this meeting, but the guys had a meeting with Quincy. All of our contracts were on the table except for mine. "Where's Siedah's contract?" They were like, "She only wants the artist contract. She doesn't want the songwriting contract." Quincy pushed all of the contracts towards them and said, "You either all get a deal or nobody gets a deal." The next thing I know [knocks at the door] "Siedah! You better sign this contract!" So when three large Black men come to your front door and tell you to sign, you tend to sign!
I signed this contract and then I set about learning how to write a song, so that I could fulfill my contractual agreement with Quincy Jones. I didn't want to be in a lawsuit because I didn't write the songs that I was supposed to write. I started learning how to write a song and that knowledge, that learning, came from the producers and the songwriters that were at these auditions.
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During this time, how were you brought on to sing "Don't Look Any Further" with Dennis Edwards?
When we formed this group, I was very privileged to be in the company of songwriters like Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil, like Dennis Lambert and Franne Golde, those two sets of producers came to me with two of the most important demos of my life.
The first one — Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil wrote this song for Chaka Khan called "Through the Fire." I sang the demo. I am a lover of Chaka Khan. Chaka's the reason I sing, as you know. When Cynthia gave me this melody, she said [sings] "Through the fire, through the limit ..." I said, "Through the fi-re." She said, "Oh, don't do that. The hard 'r' — I don't want that." I said, "You don't understand — that is Chaka Khan." That is part of her trademark sound, so she allowed me to do "Through the fi-re" because I convinced her that I knew better what Chaka would want than she did ... and I was freakin' right! Chaka sings every lick I sing. For years after that, I asked Cynthia Weil, "Please can I have a copy of that demo?" She never gave it to me, but I know in my heart every inflection that I sang for Chaka was me doing Chaka.
The second demo from the sessions with Quincy Jones was Dennis Lambert and Franne Golde. They wrote a song called "Don't Look Any Further" for an ex-Temptation named Dennis Edwards. Dennis Edwards was doing a solo album but Dennis Lambert wanted a duet between Dennis Edwards and Chaka Khan. I sang the demo. I sang the whole song top to bottom. The next time I hear the song, Dennis Edwards is singing the front half of the song with my little ad libs.
Dennis Lambert told me that Motown was wondering why they didn't have the song and he said, "We can't get Chaka in the studio." Motown was like — and I'm saying this because I wasn't in the room — "Fine. Who is on the demo?" "I don't know. Some chick named Siedah Garrett." "Put her on it!" The vocal that you hear on that Billboard #2 R&B record is my demo vocal. That let me know that I was right when I sang demos for people. I would hear something that I didn't like or that I could improve upon and they would say, "That's okay. It's just a demo." I didn't have that attitude, so I gave my best and now my best is on vinyl! It's the record, so I was really really happy with that.
I'd like to go back to Chaka for a minute because she's among a generation of legendary vocalists who were each distinctive in their own right. For Chaka, specifically, what was it about her voice that resonated with you?
Well she was on the younger side of most of her contemporaries like Gladys Knight and Aretha. Chaka had an edge in her voice. She had an edge in her style. She had an edge in the way that she dressed, the way that she recorded vocals. Miles Davis said her voice was like a horn and that is so true. Her tone is so piercing and sharp. Chaka's got highs that are unbelievable. As an artist, you can't not appreciate that. She's everything to me.
One of the things that is everything to me is hearing you sing on Michael McDonald's "Sweet Freedom." That blend between you and Michael McDonald is, indeed, one of the sweetest sounds that's been recorded. I love how there's all of these connections between you, Michael, Richard Rudolph, and Rod Temperton all coming together to create this joyful song. Would that have been the first time you worked with Rod and Richard Rudolph?
It might have been the first time that I recorded with Rod. I'm not sure if I had done some work with Quincy on his album before then, but it was one of the first projects that I did work on with Rod. I was really happy because I got to meet Michael McDonald and I just thought it was going to be a regular background session. I didn't realize that those vocals were going to be so prominently featured, but I'm really pleased with the result. Michael McDonald is everything.
So many people have such affection for him.
He's a damn nice guy, too. You don't get that too often in this business, especially with the longevity that he's had in his career. He's a sweetheart.
Around the time of "Sweet Freedom," you released two solo singles "Do You Want It Right Now" (1985) and "Ever Changing Times" (1987). The former is a banging club track produced by Jellybean, while the latter is the ballad of ballads produced by Burt Bacharach, Carole Bayer Sager, and David Foster. Those two songs represent such different facets of your range as a vocalist. In the process of recording those songs, what did you discover about yourself?
I think I realized, and this is a blessing and a curse I've learned, I can do anything. I can sing however you want me to sing. Jellybean wanted me to do whatever I wanted to do, full-out, loud, up — he didn't really care — just do your thing.
When I recorded "Do You Want It Right Now," it was a song from the soundtrack of Sidney Poitier's Fast Forward (1985). It did fast forward in and out of the theater pretty quickly, but the song became a #1 dance record. The guitar solo was played in the movie, so you never even hear my voice in the movie, but it went on to become a big record, so I performed that song all over the U.S. It was a banger. It was really fun to perform.
Burt Bacharach, on the other hand, had very specific melodies and licks. He sang those runs for me to do, which is why they're more mellow and chill. There's not a lot of vocal runs in there at all because that's not what he wanted for that track. It came out pretty good, I thought.
Absolutely. Richard Perry was the same way with a lot of artists he worked with. "I don't want any runs or improvisation. Sing it the way that it's written."
He was really fun to work with too because he really appreciated vocals. He just loved the blend of a lot of voices together, like The Pointer Sisters. Their blend was so close because they were siblings. It was just rich. They all knew where the voices were going because they'd sung so well together for their whole lives.
In Richard's studio, he had a big pillow on his sofa. It had three words on it:
"rich" period
"richer" period
"Richard" period [laughs]
That was my favorite thing in his whole studio.
Now, let's get to your songwriting! How did "Man in the Mirror" evolve from an idea to the finished recording that we know?
There was a point in which Quincy Jones was finishing up the Bad (1987) album. They'd been in the studio for a couple of years and he said, "I just need one more song" so he called his group of writers, one of which was me. I think there were like five or six others on the west coast. We had a meeting at his house in Bel Air. I remember being late for the meeting and I was trying to sort of sneak into the living room where the meeting was happening. I was trying to stay close to the edge of the wall and melt into the scene. The moment Quincy saw me, he was talking and his eyes were tracking me across the room. I heard him say "Well, before I was so rudely interrupted ..." I felt just about this tall, so I sat down quickly and I started writing some copious notes about what he thought he wanted for this next song for Michael. I wrote a few things down.
I had been singing demos for this guy named Glen Ballard and his writing partner Cliff Magness. I loved singing demos for them because I loved the way Glen wrote songs. I asked Cliff, "Quincy's trying to come up with another song for the Michael Jackson album. Would you write a song with me?" He said, "Sure!" I asked Glen, "Would you write a song with me for Michael's album?" He said, "No, my writing partner is Cliff." I said, "Cliff didn't have a problem writing with me." Then he said, "Oh, okay." I remember coming to Glen's house in Encino. He said, "So what is Quincy looking for?" I'm like, "I don't know. He just said he wants a hit. That's what he told me." "Mid-tempo? Uptempo?" I said, "Up to mid-tempo. No ballads." I wanted to write something that Michael would want to tell the world.
I had a little notebook and whenever I would see something or hear something or have an idea, I would jot it down in this book. Two years before this day that I was in the studio with Glen, I was on a writing session with a piano player named John Beasley. Great jazz pianist, just amazing. I toured with him with Sergio Mendes. I was at John's house and John got a phone call. Instead of letting his answering machine pick up the phone — it was in the middle of writing — he picks up the phone and begins this very banal conversation. He's like, "Yeah ... no, no it's okay. No, I'm not doing anything." I said to myself, "No he didn't just say he's 'not doing anything!'" ... I heard him say, "The man? What man? Oh, the man in the mirror."
Two years later, I'm at Glen's house. He goes behind his desk and turns on the keyboard. He starts trying to get a sound and he starts playing. While he's playing, I'm flipping through this book. The phrase that I'd written down two years ago "Man in the mirror" — every time I tell this story I get goosebumps — it popped off the page for me. I just started singing as Glen goes over these changes. For some reason, wherever I wanted to go vocally, Glen was already there with the chords to support the melody. I didn't know what I was going to come up with — he didn't know — but instinctively, he had the right chords underneath whatever melody I had. In ten, twelve minutes we had the first verse and the first chorus of "Man in the Mirror."
It was Wednesday evening. He said, "You go write the second verse and the second chorus. I'll go finish the track and then we'll demo this song on Friday." Friday came. We demoed the song till the early evening. When we finished this song, we stood up and we hugged each other because we knew this was a very special song. We didn't know if Quincy would feel that way about it. We didn't know if Michael would feel that way about it. There were so many things that had to happen, but I had to just let that be. I just wanted to submit the song.
I knew that Qwest offices were closed. I'd never called Quincy Jones' house before:
"Glen and I have written this song that we think is going to be great for Michael."
"Fine. Turn it into the office. I'll listen to it on Monday or Tuesday and then I'll call you back."
"Quincy, let me just ... can't I just?"
"Sid, I'm telling you, I've got twelve suits in my dining room right now, sitting around the dining room table. I can't listen. Just bring it to the office ..."
Quincy Jones has six daughters, so he knew this little tête-à-tête we were having was futile. I said, "Quincy, let me just drop off the cassette."
He said, "Alright, fine" and then he hung up the phone.
I go to his house and I knock on the door. The housekeeper opens the door and then she calls for Quincy, who then opens the dining room doors and, sure enough, there are twelve suits at his dining room table. They're all looking up at me like "What is this?" It was all on their faces. I said to Quincy, "All I ask is that you just let me know, as soon as you can, if you like it." He said, "Alright" and I went home.
I think I started making dinner. It couldn't have been more than a few hours since I'd left his house and he said to me, and I will never forget this, "Sid, this is the best song I've heard in ten years, but ..." I didn't really hear shit after "best song in ten years." I just wanted to ruminate in "best song, ten years." Then he said, "But Michael has written everything on this record and we have yet to record a song he didn't write, so I don't know. But don't worry, if Michael doesn't do it on his record, I'll do it with James Ingram on my record." I had to let it go.
A couple of days later, I'm at home and I get this phone call. I pick up the phone and it's Quincy and he says, "We in the studio recording your ole piece-a-song." I'm like, "Yes!" He said, "But ..." Again, I tune out. "In the studio recording my song" is all I wanted to ruminate in for that moment. "But Michael has a problem with the chorus. He wants the chorus to be longer. Hold on a minute." And then I hear [Michael's voice in the background]. He said, "Michael really wants you to bring home the fact that ... hold on." And then I hear [Michael's voice in the background]. "Sid, hold on a minute."
At that moment, Quincy Delight Jones puts Michael Joseph Jackson on the phone!
Now, I don't know about you, Christian, but growing up Michael was my husband. My cousin had Jermaine. Michael was my husband, so in my mind [tears up] Quincy's in the studio with my husband, so the first thing that Michael says to me is "I love this song." I said, "Thanks." The second thing Michael Jackson says to me is "And I love your voice."
Quincy said at the time, "This key is too high for Michael. Can you sing it in a lower key than you recorded the demo?" Sure. I get up and I start to walk into the vocal booth. Michael gets up with this big bread basket of a video recorder on his shoulder and he follows me into the booth. I remember this happening but it left my mind until I saw Spike Lee's film about Bad 25. He showed Michael getting up and following me into the studio with this thing on his back, the whole mirrored wall, so in my mind I'm looking at the man in the mirror, getting ready to sing "Man in the Mirror" for the man in the mirror! It was just too much. Michael is recording me as I'm walking in there. I said, "What are you doing?" He said, "I want to record you singing." I said, "Why?" He said, "Because I want to sing it like you." Oh Jesus! I didn't even know how to take that it in, so I go and I'm singing this, and Michael's recording, and it was just a high like no other. I can't even describe what that was like. It was so amazing.
What an incredible story and series of events, Siedah. Of course, "Man in the Mirror" has touched untold millions of people.
I remember I was on tour [Dangerous] with Michael. We were in Germany somewhere. We played soccer stadiums, so we had a sound check one afternoon. At this particular time, I wanted to hear what "Man in the Mirror" sounds like where the fans are. I go out to the field, I'm standing, listening, and this woman runs over to me. She is the assistant to the director of this tour. She said, "Siedah, somebody told me you wrote 'Man in the Mirror.'" I said, "Yeah." She said, "Do you know Bill W.?" I said, "No. Who is Bill W.?" She said, "Bill W. is the man who created A.A. — Alcoholics Anonymous. I just assumed from the lyrics that you wrote in 'Man in the Mirror' that you followed the tenets of A.A. I said, "No, honey. I just wrote from my heart, something I wanted Michael to say to the world."
She said, "I need you to know something" — and I get very emotional when I tell this story — "When that song came out, I bought the album. That song came up and I played that song so much. Before I went to the store to buy the album, I was in a really dark place. I was having thoughts of wanting to hurt myself. I got this record and I listened to it over and over until I didn't want to hurt myself anymore."
When she said that to me, I realized the power of music and how it can change lives. That's when I really gave some weight to my purpose in this world. She really changed me and evidently I changed her. I'm so happy for that.
Thank you for being so vulnerable in sharing that story because we can all feel that power within us when we hear a song like "Man in the Mirror" and we carry it with us. To meet someone, like yourself, who's the conduit towards making that happen is such a gift.
Thank you!
You're part of an esteemed group of artists like Diana Ross and Paul McCartney who've recorded duets with Michael Jackson. There weren't that many. How were you brought in to sing "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" with Michael on Bad?
That song was written by Michael. A few days before we recorded the song, we had just recorded "Man in the Mirror" with the choir and I thought it wasn't finished because Quincy called me and said, "I need you to come back in the studio tomorrow afternoon." I assumed we're going to finish recording "Man in the Mirror," so I go to the studio and I walk in the room and it's Quincy Jones, [engineer] Bruce Swedien, and Michael Jackson. This other song was playing.
I'm sitting behind the mixing board and behind that was a couch. I'm sitting on the couch and I'm knitting because the song is not "Man in the Mirror," so I'm waiting. Maybe they're running late. Quincy, sort of half-heartedly over his shoulder, said "Sid, you like this song?" I'm like, "Yeah I like it." "Can you sing it?" "Yeah, I can sing it." "Go on in there and sing it." I go into the booth and Michael starts following me into the booth. That's when I realize ... I see two mic stands, two music stands, two music sheets and on the sheet it said at the top "I Just Can't Stop Loving You. First verse: Michael. Second verse: Siedah." It was in that moment that I realize "Oh my God! I"m singing a duet with the King of Pop!"
All I wanted to do at that point was not fuck it up. I just wanted to not make any mistakes. I just wanted to give him the best vocal that I had to offer. I realized in singing it that it's a love song. It's Michael's love song to me. I loved it. I heard after the fact that it was offered to Barbra Streisand who thought it was odd that she, being a mature woman, would be singing a love song to a younger man, so she declined, and then at one point it was Whitney Houston and I think there was some issue with her record label and Michael's label. Long story short, it ended up being me. What's meant for you, no matter what the external circumstances are, will be for you. It wasn't meant for Barbra, it wasn't meant for Whitney. It was meant for me.
How did you find out that "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" was a number one hit?
I think I heard it on the radio or maybe Quincy told me. I just remember hearing it on the radio for the first time and I was on the freeway. Child, I had to pull off and pull over because I was in tears. "That's me!" It was a very heady, heady time.
A year later, you released your solo debut Kiss of Life (1988). What kind of creative statement did you want to make with that album?
I just wanted to have a hit. I wanted to be like Madonna. I wanted to be a single female with a hit career. I wanted to be a top songwriter. I wanted to be a top recording artist. That was my goal. When you have plans, your plans don't always come to fruition the way you assumed they would. The universe had a different plan for me.
I remember being in a rehearsal for the Bad tour. Michael asked me if I wanted to go on tour. "Do I? Yeah!" I said, "Yes I want to do this." I did it for ten days and then I got a call from either Warner Bros. or somebody at Qwest. I asked Quincy Jones and Rod Temperton, "Should I do this? Or should I make my own solo album?" Both of them were like, "You need to make your own record" but I'm thinking I could learn so much from being on the Bad tour with Michael. I'm listening to my mentors.
We start making this record and I back out of the Bad tour after ten days. My backing out allowed Sheryl Crow to stand in my stead. She became a superstar after having been on the Bad tour, so I always felt like I don't know what would have happened to me had I been on the Bad tour.
I make this record and it dies this horrible death. It's called Kiss of Life but it was actually the kiss of death! The record came and went and meanwhile I'm getting calls from [bassist] Don Boyette "We're in Germany, Sid! We're thinking about you! It's so much fun! Wish you were here!" I'm just dying inside.
Ultimately, you toured with Michael on the Dangerous tour. How did that come to fruition?
Michael was looking for another song for the Dangerous (1992) album. I said to Glen, "Let's write another song." He said, "Okay." We wrote this song called "Keep the Faith" and we purposely wrote a bridge, but didn't write a bridge melody or lyric. We offered it to Michael. He wrote the bridge and the song made the album.
At that point, he asked me if I wanted to go on the road for the Dangerous world tour. "Hell, yeah!" That was just one of the best experiences in my life, at the height of his career, as well. It was kind of like touring with the Pope, or touring with Jesus. It was just legions and legions of fans, throngs of people wherever we went.
Normally, there was A, B, and C hotel. A — Michael and his guest. B — band and singers. C — crew. A hotel was a five-star hotel. B hotel was three-star. C hotel was Holiday Inn, Motel 6. There were some places in Europe where there was no B hotel, there was only A and C, so we had to stay in the hotel where Michael was. That meant we were not going to get any sleep because all night [sings] "'We are the world ...' We love you Michael!" Although we appreciated five-star hotels, we hated when we had to be in the same hotels because his fans would not let him rest ... and he loved it.
I've toured with Michael and I've toured with Madonna. I was not meant to be a recording artist at those levels. I don't want that level of fame. I really don't. That comes with so much shit attached to it. There's no way to cleave it. I never wanted that kind of energy.
Let me tell you when it was made crystal clear to me. I was on the road with Michael. We were in Barcelona. We had a day off. I was so happy. I said, "Oh my God, we're in Spain! It's leather and purses and shoes and jackets. Let's go shopping!" Me and Don Boyette go down to the front desk to change our dollars to Spanish currency. While we're doing that, we notice that just outside the hotel are these red velvet ropes lining the pathway up to the door to the hotel. On either side of the red velvet ropes, throngs of fans are lined up, thick, and we had to go through. From behind me, I hear "Hey! That's Siedah Garrett" and then the whole crowd turns and I take off running, me and Don. I said, "Oh my God, Don! What are they going to do when they catch us?" We're running for blocks. Somebody must have said, "Hey! What if Michael comes out of the hotel while we're chasing Siedah Garrett?" And then they go back. That crowd mentality is real. There's no containing it. I was literally running for my life.
I remember Michael telling me, when he was with his brothers, the fans would pull his hair out. They were just ravenous for a piece. All of that was going through my mind when they were chasing me in Spain. Will they start pulling my hair out? I didn't want any part of that, and that's when I realized I don't want to be that artist, so "Man in the Mirror" kind of segued me into a different world.
In between Bad and Dangerous, you worked on Quincy's Back on the Block (1989). It's a phenomenal album. It bears so much of your imprint in different ways — as a vocalist, songwriter, a vocal arranger. I've always been interested to know how you were invited to write lyrics for one of the most beautiful melodies, "Tomorrow."
"Tomorrow" was an instrumental song by the Brothers Johnson. Quincy decided he would love to have a lyric put to that song, a lyric that young Tevin Campbell could sing. I wrote this song thinking about young Tevin Campbell, I think he was like eleven or something like that. It was easy for me because the melody was already there and I just had to find words to fit this particular melody. It was almost effortless. It just kind of poured out. Tevin Campbell made it his own and I loved him for that.
And on that same album, within two years of duetting with Michael, there you are with Chaka Khan, singing a duet on "The Places You Find Love" ...
My idol! I didn't even think that that could be a possibility. That was just beyond my realm of understanding. I sang Glen Ballard and Cliff Magness' demo. It was one of my favorite songs because of the storytelling. [sings] "It was raining when I met you. You were soaking wet. No time to be impressed." It was such a great setting of the tone, of the mood of the song. I just loved it. And I loved singing it. I sang my heart out on that recording. Quincy said, "Let's call Chaka." Chaka came and she listened to the song from top to bottom and she looked at Quincy and said, "What the fuck you need me for? You got her!" And I said to Chaka, "I said the same thing!" [laughs]
Chaka likes to do her own thing, so Quincy let her do her thing at the end, but he needed the melody in the song, so he left the first half of the song to me and Chaka and I did ad libs at the end. That was my duet with my idol. It was great, I thought. That story is just the best. [laughs]
I grew up with all of this music we're talking about, that you're a part of, but The Brand New Heavies' "Sometimes" was part of my inspiration as a boy who was transitioning from senior year of high school then going to the unknown terrain of college. It's a huge moment for me to meet you, just for that. How did you start working with The Brand New Heavies?
I was introduced to them by Dennis Lambert. He was working on their album and they were looking for songs, first of all, and he suggested that I start writing with these guys. They were a trio. They'd been a trio since they were in elementary school, so they'd grown up playing music together and they always had a guest vocalist. N'Dea Davenport and Beverley Knight, after me.
Word from their record company was, I was to write an equal number of songs with each member of the band. Now, they all did not have the same skill set. They all did not have the same work ethic, so I just did my best to write a great song with the guitar player, try to write a great song with the bass player, and the drummer.
We write these songs and while I'm doing these songs, I would get the tracks in the U.S., and I would write the lyric and the melody, and then I'd fly to London and do the demo. While all this is happening, they're still looking for a singer to be in their group. For like a year, they auditioned and auditioned. Nobody could sing my demos — that was the problem. Finally, their manager said, "Do you think you'd like to be in the group? We can't find anyone. No one can sing your bloody vocals." I'm like, "Hmm, okay. Yeah, sure." Then they talked about everybody in the group has to give up their publishing. I said, "You know what? I'm not going to be in this group." For months, they still looked. Finally, they're like, "Alright you can have your publishing, but everyone else in this group gives us — the managers — a piece ..." Those managers are still getting paid. They're not even their managers anymore.
Long story short, Rod Temperton and Quincy Jones taught me, "Keep my publishing."
How were you invited to write "Love You I Do" for the film version of Dreamgirls?
There's a famous musician who was in one-sixth of the group Take 6, Mervyn Warren. Mervyn was hired to do the soundtrack to Dreamgirls (2006). The director Bill Condon, wanted to use the original songwriter, Henry Krieger. The original lyricist had passed away years prior, so they were auditioning lyrics. Mervyn said you should send in some of your lyrics and see what happens. I sent in my lyrics and they called me to come to meet me in person.
I drive on the lot and I guess this was this girl's first day. I tell her where I want to be. I said. "I want to be at this studio." She sends me to Studio Z, and then I had to walk, and I'm late, so I'm walking and I'm crying and I'm calling him — "I'm on the lot somewhere. I don't know where." He said, "Don't worry. We'll send someone to get you." Finally, I go to the room. I walk in the room. I said, "I'm so sorry I'm late." They said, "That's okay. Just relax." They talked to me about a song that they wanted me to write the lyrics to, so I wrote that song. Long story short: it ended up being in the movie and it was nominated for a GRAMMY and an Oscar. I won the GRAMMY!
You sure did! Siedah, you've been so generous with all of your stories, but I would love to know, throughout your career as a singer-songwriter, what is one of the greatest challenges that you've overcome?
I think I had to let go of the idea that I was not going to be Madonna, that I was not going to be like Michael. Once I realized that that's not what I wanted anyway, I could exhale. I could move where I was meant to move without trying to guide it. I went with the flow, basically. I think that's the best way to describe it.
At this point in your career, how do you define success for yourself?
For me, my success has nothing to do with my career. For me, having a truly successful life is mastering the balance: work/play, love/family. It's all about giving equal play to those areas of your life so there's no deficiency in love, there's no deficiency in your joy for working, there's no deficiency in your love for your family. It's all about balance. For me, success is finding the balance between those things and just living your best life as you see it. That's success to me, not about "I won a GRAMMY" and "I'm nominated for two Oscars" — those are good things, mind you, but, for me, that's not what defines me as success.
You've been very successful in inspiring listeners. One of the most powerful songs that you've written is "The New Frontier (Say Their Names)" (2020). It's heartbreaking that you even had to update that song.
That song could be updated daily, my friend. That's the sad part. It's a song about the killing of innocent Black people by law enforcement, by those that are supposed to protect and serve us. When I started writing the song, it was only a couple of people that were in the headlines. Then the closer the date got that I was supposed to sing the song, more and more people were dying in the same manner. I had to add more verses and add more names. It was crazy. I could still add names. I cannot sing that song without thinking about it, and I can't think about it without crying. It's so so sad that a song like that has to be written and has to be performed to bring attention to what's happening every day, all over this country, every day. Some incidents of violence and killing are more dramatic and more tragic than others, but all of them are tragic nonetheless.
Similarly, André Cymone had written a song for Trayvon Martin and then a song called "Black Lives Matter" and his thinking was "I have a platform" ... and you have a platform, Siedah. I'm so thankful that you put those words with the music and the message.
Well, it's not about selling records, at this point. It's about getting that message out, as best I can.
In recent years, you've begun to work in musical theater. What are some of the musical theater projects that you're working on?
The Pursuit of Happyness. It was a Will Smith movie, with his son Jaden. It was a rags to riches story, true story, about a man in San Francisco who went from being homeless and hungry with his son to being one of the richest men on Wall Street. That was a brilliant film. Someone hired this writer to make it into a play. The writer Marcus Gardley said, "This isn't really a play. This is a musical." I met Marcus through my manager Erik. He brought Marcus to meet me. We hit it off. Marcus is writing this thing that he's now calling The Pursuit of Happyness — The Musical. We started writing songs. We went through a few iterations of composers, two or three.
Meanwhile, last year, I got a call from Debbie Allen, who is doing a re-make of the Pollyanna story. It was a film that Keshia Knight Pulliam starred in when she was like eight or nine years old. She played Pollyanna, the girl who, no matter what happened to her, would see the bright side of life. Always half-full, never sad. They called it Polly. She said, "I would like to make this movie musical for the Broadway stage."
Now I'm writing for Polly with my writing partner Joriah Kwamé — brilliant young composer. All of the other composers I would have to fight to figure out how to get my ideas with their music. It was like trying to put puzzle pieces together that didn't fit. When I met Joriah, it was like, "Dude, we bounce off of each other." Where I'm weak, musically, he's strong. Where I have lyrical ideas, he lets me serve those ideas. We just make such a great team. I'm so glad to be working with him. We finished the work on The Pursuit of Happyness. Our work is done and then we're working on Polly. Those songs are really coming together. He's just brilliant. I just love working with him. We're going to do much more.
Debbie Allen comes with a very strong partner in Lena Waithe. Debbie Allen and Lena Waithe are doing this Polly story together. They're directing and producing.
With songwriters who are just starting out in their career, what sort of advice would you give to them?
At the risk of sounding like an old-ass woman, I would love if this generation that's coming up behind me would concentrate more on learning their instruments rather than programming their computers. Prince said it best. He said, "When you come to my concert, you're gonna hear some real music. You ain't gonna hear no samples. It's gonna be all real vocals and all real players." That's what I think is sorely lacking in music today. We're not raising violinists, we're not raising those kind of musicians who read music and play and master their instruments. We're raising computer programmers, who know how to make beats. That, to me, is not really cultivating musicianship.
When I was signed to Quincy Jones as a songwriter, I would turn in songs and, early on, he would critique the lyrics and say, "This line could be better." I would be so mad because I would be like "Here's my song!" I'd be so proud of it and he would break it apart and tell me how to improve it. Quincy said to me something that I will never forget. It's what I tell new songwriters every time they ask me for advice. He said to me when he saw my face and that I had an attitude when he asked me to make that line better, "Writing a great song is about finding a brand new way to say the same old thing." When Quincy asked me to re-write this and re-write that, my whole attitude changed. He said to me, "The best songwriters are re-writers."
If you were to go back and meet the Siedah who was just about to release Kiss of Life, knowing what you know now, is there anything you would want to tell her?
I'd say, "Girl, go on the road with Michael! Learn what you can learn from Michael and then come back and you can duplicate that on your record." I really should not have listened to the record executives because they had a different agenda that I knew nothing about. It wasn't necessarily about me. It was about them selling records, but none of that happened.
I'm in a good place right now in my life. I've been married to my husband for ten years. He's also my manager. I'm happy with my family life. My career is at a place where I have fame, I got enough, I'm good, I'm recognized when I need to be, but it's not like I can't walk down the street or go to a movie. Now, when people recognize me from seeing me somewhere or having heard me speak somewhere, it feels good because it's not over-intrusive, it's not every day, it's not all the time, so it's really wonderful.
In fact, we were just in New York, and we walked in this restaurant and walked past this table and Erik heard the woman say "Is that Siedah Garrett?" He told me what she said, so I went back and I said, "Who just said Siedah Garrett? Who said that name?" She was like, "Oh my God! We just saw you with so and so. We thought you were great!" That's the kind of fame that I appreciate, at that level. I'm good with that!
